Arnold Schwarzenegger, Heaven, and the Reality of What He Said

 I saw the clickbait headlines, and I clicked.  

That's what they are there for, right? 

And when a famous movie star says that heaven is a fantasy and that those who say we won't get to be reunited with those who have died are effing liars...well, that makes news.

And, boy, was I formulating a response.  Was I ready to jump into the fray and hammer what was reportedly said.  I had it all laid out and ready to go.

But, the thing about clickbait headlines and the articles that follow is: they often are misleading.  They pull quotations out of their context and create a narrative that may or may not be true to the initial setting.

So, before I decided to open up with both barrels, I decided to search for the original commentary in Interview Magazine.  Please read it if you have not.  It is worthwhile if you are interested in this story as I am--particularly as a pastor, theologian, and someone who preaches the reality of heaven.

As I read through the interview, I see a man whose life experiences have led him to a place where it is natural to question the existence of heaven.  Just read about what Schwarzenegger's life was like in Austria.  The guy knows poverty.  He knows what it means to struggle.  He had to use an outhouse and dream of having music in his home.  (These are things that many of us in the U.S. have no clue--no friggin' clue--about.  

Schwarzenegger found a pathway out of that poverty through weight training, joining the military, obtaining his passport, and coming to the U.S.  He was given opportunity through the generosity and care of famous gym owners.  

Schwarzenegger recognizes that he is no self-made man.  He knows there were people who gave him breaks.  He knows there are people who helped him along the way.  The tribute he gives to these people is packed with emotion.

And he is grateful.  Extremely grateful for everything that he has.  From extreme poverty to absolute wealth, the contrast he has experienced in his life is amazing.  And here is the thing: if you take into account where he started to where he is now, he has passed from hell into heaven.  From a house with no electricity and no running water to sitting down with famous people, smoking Cuban cigars, able to buy whatever he wants.  How could it get any better for him?  I mean, really, how could it get any better?

He went from the lowest of low to achieving the highest possible position of power that he could achieve in the U.S.--as the governor of California; the highest possible position of fame--a Hollywood movie star who has been in multiple blockbuster movies; to one of the wealthiest people in the world.  What more is there to look forward to?  How could heaven possibly be better?

And that's likely why death scares him, in my opinion.

Arnold claims to be no spiritual expert, and that comes through in his conversation in the interview.  As I read it, he is wrestling back and forth with the concepts of nihilism, hope, spirituality, body, soul, and how it all might work out.  It's much more nuanced than many of the headlines and articles report.

And I am thankful for his wrestling.  I wish the news articles would have highlighted that more, and I'd love to have a conversation with Arnold regarding these matters.  It might be difficult to persuade him, but on the other hand, it might not be.

Because I would like to ask him what his perspective might be if he had never gotten out of Austria; if he had never become Mr. Universe and a movie star; if he had never achieved the status that he had achieved.  Would he be as enamored with this life now?  Would he think that there could be nothing better than this life?  How does he grapple with the billions of humans who never come close to experiencing the life he has?  How does he deal with the fact that millions upon millions of people never experience justice, satisfaction, fulfillment, and the like?  

Would he look at a mother and father who are burying their still born child and say that the person who tells them they will see their child again in heaven are liars? Would he tell them that the child is simply going to disintegrate, to get over it?  Would he say the same to a mother and father staring down into the casket looking at their daughter's body for what seems like an eternity, not wanting to close that casket because when they do, it rams home the reality that they will never see her dance, sing, or laugh again?  Would he look into the eyes of a widow or widower who has just lost their spouse of 50+ years and now has to think of what life will be like without that person; who wonders how they will move on and deny the existence of heaven?  Will he look down on a person suffering from cancer whose every breath is painful; who is wondering why this disease has come upon her and wondering if this is all that life has to offer; and say that someone telling them about heaven is an effing liar?

I don't think so.  I don't think he would at all.  He's mad that we die. That comes across plain and clear in his interview.  He doesn't want it to be that way.  He wants someone or something to blame.  But he also has no clear way to resolve these thoughts.  Intellectually, he is in a rough space.

He is not alone.  He's not the only person who wrestles with such things. Lots of people do.

Those of us who are Christians have a resolution to these problems: answers that have been passed down for over 2000 years.  They are still very good answers, but they are also best shared in person; face to face; over coffee, beer, lunch, dinner, and the like.  Not likely that any such meeting would ever take place between me and Arnold, but I have had those conversations numerous times.  Some of them took place with the examples I shared earlier--those weren't made up.  They were situations I found myself in as a pastor, and I cannot express how the Christian view empowered each and every one of them to face the days ahead with a sure and certain hope.  I hope Arnold has someone who can sit down with him and help him see it too.

I Know it was only a Dream, but...

Have you had one of those dreams?

One of those dreams that is so vivid and real?

A dream where you are heading to a place of beauty and serenity?

A dream where as you travel toward the destination, the colors become more vivid, more eye-popping, more unbelievable?

A dream where you rise and climb and from a distance see a place that words cannot describe?  Because it is so overwhelming in how it looks?

And yet, this destination is at a distance.  You know you will not arrive there--at least for the time being.  But the destination is not altogether strange.  It is somehow familiar.  Somehow, deep in the recesses of your heart and soul, you know of this place.  Somehow, in some way, the imprint of this place was molded into you.

And so, while it is new and exciting and different, it is also familiar and comforting and old.

I dreamed this dream.

I saw this place.

The Christian says, "Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for those desires exist.  A baby feels hunger: well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim: well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire: well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world. If none of my earthly pleasures satisfy it, that does not prove that the universe is a fraud. Probably earthly pleasures were never meant to satisfy it, but only to arouse it, to suggest the real thing. If that is so, I must take care, on the one hand, never to despise, or to be unthankful for, these earthly blessings, and on the other, never to mistake them for the something else of which they are only a kind of copy, or echo, or mirage. I must keep alive in myself the desire for my true country, which I shall not find till after death; I must never let it get snowed under or turned aside; I must make it the main object of life to press on to that country and to help others to do the same.”  --C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

 

What Happens when We Die?

I received the following email this past week:

Since the passing of my father recently the question of what happens when we die is ever on my mothers mind. I might add mine too. I have read a lot on it on the internet and the Bible and I must admit it can be overwhelming for a simple minded person like myself.  I wanted to ask you if on your blog did you address the question and if so when. I tried looking in the archives but was unable to find one...After reading a lot of thoughts from other people and their reasoning I always came to the thought of what is Pastor Haug's thoughts.

Heady topic with lots of stuff out there.

Interestingly enough, this week's Living Lutheran: Ask a Pastor section was on this very topic.  Answers there vary.  Answers with a lot of pastors and professors vary.

Here's my short answer: we don't know exactly.  That's the truth.

There's only been one person that I know of who experienced the fullness of death for three days and then returned, and He didn't do too much talking about what was going on when His body lay in the tomb.

Sure, there have been others who have had near death experiences.  Some have tried to explain these experiences as the brain going into shut down mode and having a hyper-burst of activity.  However, there are some experiences where the brain is completely shut down for days, and yet these experiences still occur.  Some have recorded these experiences and sold them on the market.  At the recommendation of church members, I have read both:

Heaven is for Real

Proof of Heaven

Both of these books are quite interesting and intriguing.  Both have sold thousands of copies, but they are vastly different in what they convey about life after death.  Vastly different.

So, what is true?

I don't know, but this is what I trust:

When I die, I believe I will go to be with God.

Yes, I know this doesn't exactly gel with St. Paul's understanding of death: that we fall asleep until the resurrection.  But it does gel with other portions of scripture.

For instance, this Sunday's Gospel passage from the book of Luke.  Jesus is asked a question about the resurrection by the Sadducees.  Of course the Sadducees don't believe in the resurrection of the dead.  They believe once a person is dead: that's it.

Yet, Jesus doesn't buy that train of thought.  He answers them rather profoundly (bold emphasis mine):

 27 Some Sadducees, those who say there is no resurrection, came to him 28and asked him a question, ‘Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies, leaving a wife but no children, the man shall marry the widow and raise up children for his brother. 29Now there were seven brothers; the first married, and died childless; 30then the second 31and the third married her, and so in the same way all seven died childless. 32Finally the woman also died. 33In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife will the woman be? For the seven had married her.’  34 Jesus said to them, ‘Those who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage; 35but those who are considered worthy of a place in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 36Indeed they cannot die any more, because they are like angels and are children of God, being children of the resurrection. 37And the fact that the dead are raised Moses himself showed, in the story about the bush, where he speaks of the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. 38Now he is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive.’ 39Then some of the scribes answered, ‘Teacher, you have spoken well.’ 40For they no longer dared to ask him another question.

"Now, He is God, not of the dead, but of the living; for to Him all of them are alive."

This is quite the interesting statement, is it not?  How can Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob still be living?  Their bones have surely decayed and returned to the dust long sense?  How could they be considered living?

Jesus offers more insight when He gives the parable of the rich man and Lazarus:

19 ‘There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. ²⁰And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, ²¹who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. ²²The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. ²³In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. ²⁴He called out, “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.” ²⁵But Abraham said, “Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. ²⁶Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.” ²⁷He said, “Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father’s house— ²⁸for I have five brothers—that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.” ²⁹Abraham replied, “They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.” ³⁰He said, “No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.” ³¹He said to him, “If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.” ’ 

While this indeed is a parable; it does tell us something of how Jesus viewed what happened after death.

#1. There is life after it.
#2. Some are taken to be with Abraham wherever he may be (With God?).
#3. Some head to torment.
#4. There is a separation between these two places that cannot be crossed.

Some might like to stop here, but Jesus certainly doesn't.  Jesus, as Paul talks about the resurrection.

Some folks like to do an either/or.  Either heaven and hell or resurrection to a new heaven and a new earth.

I like to combine them with the both/and.  Some part of us goes on living--goes to be with God (or torment) as we await the last judgment.  Then, on that day, we are reembodied at the resurrection.

Again, I don't know for sure.  Haven't been on the other side to check.  One thing is for sure: we'll all find out. 

Does God Give Warning Tickets?

Last Sunday after church [Sheriff of Austin County] Jack Brandes asked me a very good question, "Does God give warning tickets?" "You know, pastor," Jack said, "we issue a lot of warning tickets. Does God give warnings?"

Jack, of course was referencing my sermon last week about the reasons we follow Christ’s commands and God’s laws. My initial response was, "Yes, God does issue warning tickets." And I stand by that. This might seem like a rather odd topic for Mother’s Day, but bear with me. I’m trying to be faithful to the biblical texts appointed for the day and answer a really good question brought forth by one of our members.

The Old Testament is full of references of God sending warnings to His people who were disobeying the law. All one need do is read through the prophets. When the people sinned, God repeatedly sent men of faith who called Israel to repentance. "Stop worshiping false gods," they would cry out, "lest God bring forth punishment." "Thus says the Lord, stop your pious festivals because what I really desire is for you to do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with your God. Do this, or there will be consequences."

Warning tickets. Such things are issued to get you to think about what you are doing wrong and turn around to do the right things. But what about the New Testament? Are such warnings found after Jesus’ death and resurrection? I think there are.

Let us look once again at our second lesson this morning from the book of Revelation chapter 22. This is the very end of John’s vision, and in this vision, John is being shown around heaven. John paints the picture of this reality several times in this final book of the Bible including in these last few verses, "12 ‘See, I am coming soon; my reward is with me, to repay according to everyone’s work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.’ 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. 15Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

"15Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." A warning ticket. Now, those of you who read my blog know this verse was omitted by those who were choosing today’s Bible passages for some reason or another. I wasn’t happy about its exclusion, so I made sure it was printed in the bulletin. We need to see what is in scripture and be allowed to think about it, wrestle with it, and ask tough questions about it. Like, why would God keep people outside of heaven?

Now, this might not be a troubling question for some. I mean, there are many Christians who willingly accept the Christian doctrine of hell, but there are a good chunk of people who find this problematic. How could a loving God destine people to eternal punishment?

Well, let’s start with the fact that God does not destine anyone to hell. God does not destine anyone to eternal punishment. God doesn’t condemn people. They condemn themselves.

Now, that might sound harsh, but let’s go through this step by step. First off, remember that you don’t have the power to come to belief in God on your own. Some people have trouble with this concept. Some folks believe you have to consciously make a decision to believe in God and follow Jesus Christ. I respectfully disagree as Scripture is very clear. St. Paul writes that no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the power of the Holy Spirit. For those of you who want verse references, it’s 1 Corinthians 12:3. If you have an argument with me about this, you will first have to argue with St. Paul. Martin Luther, namesake of the Lutheran Church picked up on this in his explanation to the third article of the Apostles’ Creed when he wrote, "I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ or come to Him, but it is the Holy Spirit that calls me through the Gospel, enlightens me with His gifts and sanctifies and preserves me in the true faith." And now, if Andrew Newberg’s brain research is correct, we know that we are actually hard-wired for belief in God. The brain is wired for belief! In my book, that means God has predestined each and every one of us to believe in Him and have salvation.

So, why hell then? Why people sitting outside heaven? Well, because God gives us the choice to walk away. We can freely stay in a relationship with Him, or we can walk away from it. We have free will.
"But why does God give us this free will. If He loves us so much and wants us to be with Him, why does He allow us to walk away?"

Well, let’s think about that a moment. If He didn’t give us free will, then we would simply be puppets on a string. God would control us. That’s not exactly a relationship now, is it? True relationships, relationships which are built upon love and trust require freedom. They require people having the ability to say yes to each other or no to each other. It’s that simple, really. There must be a choice involved when it comes to our relationship with God, and that choice remains squarely with you and me as to whether or not we stay in that relationship. God doesn’t waver in His resolve toward us. He wants us to be with Him, and He will do everything in His power to make that relationship work. It is we who choose to walk away.

Which brings us back to those sitting outside of heaven: the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. How do we reconcile such things with grace? How do we reconcile those sitting on the outside with the knowledge that it is not by our actions that we are saved but purely by God’s love? Doesn’t God love even those who are outside the gate?

Of course. In fact, God loves them so much that He gives them their heart’s desire.

Verses 16 and 17 read, "16 ‘It is I, Jesus, who sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.’ 17 The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come.’ And let everyone who hears say, ‘Come.’ And let everyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who wishes take the water of life as a gift."

Stop and think a moment about your heart’s desire. Stop and think a moment about what is at the center of your life and what your life revolves around. Consider for a moment that your heart’s desire is your thirst. Consider for a moment that your life revolves around what you believe will quench that thirst. And consider that God wants to give you your heart’s desire. God will allow you to pursue your heart’s desire for eternity. And consider now, that if your heart’s desire isn’t God, that desire will never be quenched. Yeah, that would be hell.

Now, consider the fact that the only desire that can be quenched completely when we enter into eternity, is our thirst for God. "Let everyone who is thirsty come. Drink the gift of the water of life. Be satisfied. Be filled. Enter into the peace that passes all understanding." Heaven.

What is your heart’s desire? Do we need a warning ticket? I sincerely hope not. Amen.