Tuesday, April 28, 2015

Christian Colleges Losing Christianity?

Dennis asks the following question:  A topic that has grown in me is the change in the Concordia Colleges. When I attended (67-71) the Colleges were schools for Christ-servant oriented students. Now it seems that they are little more than public universities. In my small view the church is being lost in the chase for funds. Am I wrong?

To get the discussion going, I'll put in my $0.02.

I attended a Christian College (Texas Lutheran College now University).  There are more than a few things that I have found intriguing about my experience then and now that time has passed.

Here are a few notables:

1. I was told that at one point national church bodies once gave a large percentage of the college's budget.  That number had dwindled somewhere near only 1%.

2.  Most of the capital improvement projects were not funded by the church.  Nearly every one during and after my college years was given by individuals and corporations.

3. My alma mater changed its name from Texas Lutheran College to Texas Lutheran University because "college" was getting a bad rap, and they were losing potential students.  (and therefore, potential $$$)

4. Society, in general, pushes science and technology instead of the liberal arts.  Christian colleges who seek to be Christ centered have found themselves a bit devalued because of a more "secular" push in society.

All this is to say, in a very real way, follow the money.  Colleges/Universities have become very big businesses these days, and they will cater to those who give/pay.  If the larger church isn't giving and paying like it was, it will not have as much influence.  Just my opinion.


Dennis Bender said...

Your remarks are quite logical. Most likely the Concordia System has done what they feel that they must do to survive financially. IMO both the Church (LCMS) and the colleges have failed students. If the Church felt that they could not support the system as it was, they could have downsized it to make it feasible. The districts would have all protested but I believe that an education dedicated to ministers, teachers, directors of youth, family, and education, etc. is too important to give it second rate status. If the church schools want called consistent theologically-sound church workers then a system is required which will focus on those needs. I don't believe the present system is doing that.

Kathy Suarez said...

Kevin and Dennis -- Where is your world-view? The university system goes back to the Middle Ages and the Roman Church. Remember Abelard and Heloise? The Lutheran Church is only 500 years old. Now it is stumbling. My question: Is this a blip -- or is it the large branch broken off from the vine that is now withering and dying?

Unknown said...

Excuse me please Kevin, I am attempting to constrain myself here, (yes as a matter of fact it is something new for me... )

Wow, not sure here but it sounds like a bit of Papist claptrap to me. OMG As though we Lutherans are by nature more sinful and unclean than the Holey and soon to be bankrupt Roman church.

Let me tell you Kathy, of my personal and professional experiences, I have literally been closer to a former priest (now bishop) of a MAJOR diocese in an EASTERN City than likely you and 99% of parishioners will ever be. Curiously I have known nuns and Parish priests who seem to be more comfortable and even appreciative of the Lutheran church than you.

NOT ONCE have any of them badmouthed either the Reformation or the Lutheran Church. Lest I forget to remind you of my experience with representatives of the Holy Roman Empire, INCLUDING my personal knowledge of and Experiences with Priests and their HOMOSEXUAL lovers, whom the diocese graciously relocated to be with parish priests when the priest was reassigned... not to mention the first hand stories I have heard of the influence of organized Crime, on your Holey Roman Church. Why is it that Organized crime syndicates on the West coast can arrange a meeting for Lutheran clergy to meet with an archbishop within 24 hours? Kathy when is the last Time you tried to arrange such a meeting within 24 hours? Are you familiar with the five Crime families of New York and their influence on your Holy Roman Church... Kathy, I swear if you had seen What I have seen and Experienced what I have experienced you would drop your blind faith in the dictates of Rome and put your faith directly in Jesus and maybe even re-reform to your Lutheran heritage.
I am not claiming That Lutherans are in Any sense or to any degree superior or less sinful than Catholics.
Need I remind you of the cozy relationship between the HOLEY Roman Empire and the Third Reich, but I suspect that none of this is likely to change your mind or influence your faith or opinions. Pick up the Paper and look at the number of pedophile Priests. Is the "LIBERAL MEDIA only glossing over all the Lutheran pedophile Pastors here or what? I do know of one bad apple Lutheran Pastor who has done HARD TIME for their offenses, and paid his debt to society. Oh yeah and it isn't driving the ELCA into Bankruptcy yet.

Most sincerely,


Kathy Suarez said...

If you will permit, Pastor Kevin, I will respond to our friend, Carl.

First, the Catholic Church has more money than God: It's not going bankrupt anytime soon. The American sex abuse scandal cost the Church something like 2.6 billion, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the resources of the Church. Most Dioceses have recovered. Millions of people, including myself, continue to give to the Church.

Second, and more important, is the continuance of the terrible misunderstanding that caused the split in the Church. Luther was a great advocate for education. Like him, I believe in good education. Sound education leads to clear thinking, and that is the key. Carl, based on what you wrote, you are unable to think clearly. Without enumerating and responding to all the things you wrote, I will just say that in your anger you are confusing abuses with the Truth and Doctrine of the Catholic Church. You are allowing your personal prejudices to cloud your thinking.

Unknown said...

Was that anger clouding my thinking or the thick cloud of incense? And BTW if you don't mind my saying, you seem a bit incensed yourself.

Here Again was my last post reflecting Anger or Common Sense?

(OK, sorry that was simply a rhetorical question .)

And here again let me state my profound respect for the RC Priests and nuns I have known, and for the institution, recognizing its fallibility, The Crusades the Spanish inquisition Etc.... "Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition... Our Chief weapons Are...." (Sorry that was HUMOR from Monty Python) you can Watch it on youtube google "Monty Python Spanish inquisition"

And the Roman Church's Billions,
of course were all freely given from pure generosity, no intimidation or extortion involved, right?

What of Matthew 6:24? How can a church that only and Exclusively serves God end up with more Mammon than GOD? Just lucky I guess.. Sorry but my petty little Lutheran brain has a hard time with this question.

Kathy, what am I missing here? Please answer these question!

I am NOT angry, just confused. I need your enlightenment.


Kathy Suarez said...

Hey Carl -- I'm not incensed. But if you are not pulling my leg (the lingo?: I was born in '45) I will be glad to try to answer your questions....

I am glad that you had good experiences with priests and nuns. I am not a big fan of Monty Python.

The last I heard, the CC has not extorted $$ from the folks since '45 -- that is, 1645 A.D. It's time to move into the present.

Mt 6:24? For the umpteenth time: Catholics do not worship the Church!!! Catholics worship God.

I respect Martin Luther. The poor man became upset, confused and angry. He had very, very poor spiritual direction... he confused abuses with Doctrine.

Unknown said...

If money is mammon, The RC Church seems to have found a way to have it's cake and eat it too! Making Jesus at best an exaggerator, if not a Liar. Read Matthew 6:24 again.

Bingo games, raffles and games of chance at church carnivals appeal to human greed and are little more than a tax on the poor and the STUPID! And continue to this day.

BTW If I am not mistaken, there were 7 "Catholic churches", one of them was in fact in Rome... The Roman Church is not the ONLY catholic church. So tell me sister, what makes the Roman church THE Catholic Church? Is it mammon?

I am intrigued by Francis. And though a lowly Lutheran, I am inspired by his humanity and humility.


Kathy Suarez said...

What makes the Roman Church THE Church is Matthew 16:18. I am very Roman, I am universal.

Unknown said...

Oh of course, all roads lead to Rome... How silly of me....

More Papist claptrap.

Oh well.